Disenchanted with mundane world: Beth Upton

Disenchantment with the Mundane World: Conversation with former Theravada Buddhist nun

Disenchantment: Untold Tales

(The Theory of Samsara) Jan. 8, 2026: In this in-depth conversation on Ultimate Meaning: The Theory of Samsara, I speak with British Buddhist meditation teacher Beth Upton, a former fully ordained Theravāda Buddhist nun (Sayalay Anuttara) in Burma who spent nearly ten years training under Pa Auk Sayadaw (Ven. Bhaddanta Āciṇṇa) in the Burmese forest meditation tradition.

 

She shares her journey from ordination at age 25, through years of rigorous monastic training in calm-and-insight (samatha-vipassanā), to her decision to disrobe and teach as a lay practitioner in the West.

Together, we explore some of the most misunderstood questions in contemporary Buddhism, including:

• 

  Let go until success then go teach the world.

  What truly leads someone to renounce samsaric life
• Disenchantment vs. curiosity on the path to liberation
• Whether Buddhist enlightenment is possible for lay Buddhist practitioners
• The lived meaning of renunciation beyond philosophy
• Tranquility versus insight (samatha vs. vipassanā) — and why “vipassanā” is often a misused term
• Ultimate reality, momentariness (moment-to-moment presence), and non-self
• Why deep meditation can feel fragile outside the context of monastic life
• The role of community, wise friends, and authentic teachers
• Commercialization of Dharma vs. teaching by donation
• Sectarianism between Theravāda, Mahāyāna, and Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism
• Why liberation is not just for “other cultures” or monastics

Canadian interviewer Lama Choga

This dialogue is not about spiritual abstract beliefs or spiritual ideals, but about what actually works when confronting disappointment (dukkha, suffering), impermanence, and the [impersonal] realities of samsara in modern life.

Chapters/Timestamps

• 00:00 – Intro: Beth Upton and Path [to End] Samsara
• 02:18 – Why she chose ordination as a British Buddhist nun at age 25
• 05:10 – Meeting authentic Buddhist teachers and the power of sangha [community]
• 08:32 – Experimenting with life and early renunciation
• 12:45 – Discovering liberation as a real possibility
• 16:40 – Is enlightenment possible for lay practitioners?
• 19:55 – Stream entry, arahantship, and Theravāda views
• 24:10 – Did Beth Upton meet enlightened beings?
• 27:05 – Why she disrobed after 10 years as a forest nun
• 33:40 – Fragility of meditation outside monastic life
• 37:55 – Teaching the Dharma authentically in the West
• 41:50 – Disenchantment with samsara: knowing it in the bones
• 47:30 – Cycles of renunciation and returning to the world
• 52:15 – Creating long-term retreat communities in Europe
• 56:40 – Teaching by donation rather than selling the Dharma
• 1:01:30 – Can deep meditation be practiced while working?
• 1:06:55 – Permanent retreatants and Western monastic models
• 1:10:40 – Environmental ethics in Buddhist practice
• 1:15:25 – Sectarianism: Southeast Asian Theravāda vs. Tibetan [Vajrayana] Buddhism
• 1:21:10 – Personal liberation vs. compassion for all beings
• 1:26:30 – Shamatha vs. vipassanā: clearing the confusion
• 1:33:10 – Ultimate reality and momentariness explained
• 1:39:45 – Causality, impermanence, and non-self
• 1:45:20 – Reflexive awareness and observing mind moments
• 1:52:10 – How to find wise friends and authentic teachers
• 1:57:30 – Final advice for Western practitioners
• 2:00:10 – Closing reflections and future conversations

Lama Choga and a Canadian Buddhist Sangha

If serious about meditation, renunciation, and understanding liberation beyond romantic [New Age] spirituality, this conversation offers rare clarity and lived insight.

🙏 Keep wise friends. Beth Upton's YouTube channel: @beth.upton.meditation

• Beth Upton's website: bethupton.com
• Previous videos about Beth Upton's backstory: About Me
• Episode 138: Trained as a Nun - Beth Upton
• Canadian Lama Choga: ultimatemeaning.org
• Meditációs elvonulások (Gánti Bence)
• Disenchantment: Untold Tales, Vol. 1 (book by Matt Groening)

How this was made: Auto-dubbed. Audio tracks for some languages were automatically generated. #DharmaTalk #Samsara #Buddhism #Theravada #Vipassana #MeditationPractice #Renunciation #Liberation #Enlightenment #BuddhistNun #PaAuk #NonSelf #FourNobleTruths #EightfoldPath #SpiritualPractice #Mindfulness #Jhanna #EasternPhilosophy #ultimatemeaning

• Host Lama Choga (The Theory of Samsara, Jan. 2026), guest Beth Upton; Dhr. Seven, Amber Larson (eds.), Wisdom Quarterly