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| H.H. Gyalwa Karmapa |
I [Krodha] was asked to be his personal chauffeur. His Holiness expressed a desire to meet with the Hopi Indians in Arizona. We set about making the necessary arrangements even renting a brand new, gold colored Cadillac as the official vehicle for the journey.
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| Road to Second Mesa, AZ |
Early in the afternoon of the following day, we arrived at a place called Second Mesa, a high plateau on the Hopi Reservation [Nation]. It looked like an old chocolate cake. I nosed the Cadillac onto the dirt road that spiraled up around it, and we slowly made our way to the top.
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| Tibetan lamasery (gompa)? No. Walpi, First Mesa, Hopi Reservation (Ansel Adams, 1941) |
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| Third Mesa, Hopi Reservation, Arizona, as photographed in Feb. 1989 (wiki) |
Even though it was October, the temperature was well over 100 degrees. The place looked dusty, desolate, and poor.
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| Is this Great Chief finally returning to us? |
Through Achi the translator, His Holiness asked: "How goes it? How are things with your people?"
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| Second Mesa, Hopi Reservation, Arizona, U.S. |
His Holiness listened with an expression of deep compassion on his face.
"I will do something for you," he said.
Then Chief Ned invited us to go down with him into a kiva [ceremonial room] to see some sacred relics. There was a small hole at the top of it with a rickety ladder poking out. When he motioned for us to go down it, His Holiness politely declined.
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| Reconstruction of a kiva NM (above) and inside reconstruction (below), Mesa Verde Nat'l Park |
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He [the Karmapa] was a rather large and portly man, and there was no way he could possibly fit through that hole.
He asked that the rest of us go down while he remained up above. Down in the cool darkness, Chief Ned showed us an eagle feather and other sacred relics. When we climbed back up into the sunlight, His Holiness abruptly ended the visit.
_at_Rumtek_Monastery,_Sikkim_in_1971.jpg) |
| The 16th Karmapa with Gelongma Karma Kechog Palmo (Freda Bedi), Sikkim, 1971 |
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| Hopi Cultural Center - Second Mesa, Arizona |
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| The rain on the plain doth drain |
The desert baked and shimmered in the intense heat. I looked out at the sky and noticed a tiny, sheeplike, fleecy little ball of a cloud, all by itself way out there on the horizon. I didn't give it much thought.
I kept on driving, and the Karmapa kept on chanting, and 10 or 15 minutes went by like that before I glanced up again.
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| Desert blue sky with clouds (Wilfred Furman) |
We rolled into the motel parking lot. One of the attendants opened the door for His Holiness. He got out and walked to his motel room where another attendant stood ready to open the door. I watched his back as he disappeared into the room.
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| The Buddha/Buddhists can influence weather? |
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| Avalokiteśvara Bodhisattva |
Pretty soon a crowd had gathered around the motel. In every [Indian] face there was a look of awe and wonder towards his Holiness, who at the moment was conducting an Avalokiteshvara (compassion) empowerment for the assembled crowd.
We Western practitioners felt very much like outsiders at this event. The amazing facial resemblance between the Tibetans and the Hopi suggested an ancient bond between the two peoples. To me, it felt like a reunion. (m.youtube.com)
(mykhathasnotail) • 11y ago. I'm assuming this is about the 16th Karmapa?
(krodha) • 11y ago. Yeah, 16th Karmapa.
1 more reply [deleted] • 11y ago. WOW!
What parallels are to be seen?
What parallels do you see with Native American [shamanistic, animistic, pantheistic] spiritual teachings and Buddhist teachings?
QUESTION: I'm fascinated by the history, culture, and spirituality of the Indigenous people of the America, which is a continent not a country. I've always been somewhat interested, but that interest has always taken a back seat to Buddhism and Vedanta [Vedic Hinduism], the culture of my ancestors.
Now I am at a stage in life [sannyasin?] during which I am synthesizing all my interests and beliefs into a singular way of life.
Thank you for replying and informing. (u/mad_bad_dangerous • Buddhism r/Buddhism, 2015)
One very easy answer to this derives from the fact that when Tibetan Buddhist teachers first arrived in the USA and California, the first place they went was the Southwest (Arizona, New Mexico, etc.) and immediately had a deep sense of recognition. Wisdom Quarterly has covered this extensively. They did not recognize in one another superficial or coincidental similarities. From the time of the ancient lost civilization in the Grand Canyon uncovered by Kincaid and re-hidden by the Smithsonian, those points of similarity were direct remnants. Buddhism arrived in California/Mexico long before Christianity.
- What contact did the Native Americans ever have with ancient Buddhism?
- An Inglorious Columbus: or, Evidence that Hwui Shan and a Party of Buddhist Monks from Afghanistan [ancient Gandhara] Discovered America in the Fifth Century, A.D. by American Edward Payson Vining, 1847-1920 (archive.org)
- INDIGENOUS DHARMA: Native American and Buddhist Voices (Inquiring Mind)
- Wisdom Quarterly friend Hendon M. Harris says: Evidence supports theory that the Chinese discovered America [long before Columbus fumbled into the Caribbean]
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| "First Nations" tribes of the Americas |
(ringer54673
• 2015) I don't know if all Native American beliefs are the same. [Of course, they are not, but they can be said to have threads of similarity running through them, like shamanism, animism, and pantheism running through them.] But there is a huge contradiction between [at least] one and Buddhism. The Buddha did not teach [ultimate] "oneness" or [Hindu] non-duality.
What did the historical Buddha teach?
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| What the Buddha Taught |
More important than this question of what it feels like when the ego-sense drops away and we feel connected to everyone and everything, the Buddha taught something far more important and more shocking to the Brahmin priests' way of viewing reality, the universe, and the Vedas, something can still not begin to accept or come around to seeing for themselves.
- What contact did the Native Americans ever have with ancient Buddhism? An Inglorious Columbus: or, Evidence that Hwui Shan and a Party of Buddhist Monks from Afghanistan [ancient Gandhara] Discovered America in the Fifth Century, A.D. by American Edward Payson Vining, 1847-1920 (archive.org)
The Buddha dared to suggest that -- ultimately speaking -- there is NO SELF (not "soul," not atman, atta, personality, ego, essence behind things), that phenomena is in fact impersonal and that the real source of problems in life (samsara) is ignorance, not the lack of merging the Atman (specific consciousness) with the Brahman (universal consciousness), the Drop with the Ocean, the Ray of light with the Source of light, the Illusion of separation with the Reality behind all illusions, as modern Hindus might conceive of ancient Vedic (pre-Hindu) teachings.
The Buddha dared to go one step beyond that to SHOW how things are impersonal and that this is the key to moksha, spiritual liberation. But to a world that is hardly willing to let go of the sensual and material and recognize a supersensual and spiritual, what use is there talking about such highfalutin things?
The Buddha did not teach "beliefs"; he taught a path-of-practice to direct knowing-and-seeing of reality.
When you yourself know-and-see, it will not matter who said what, who taught what, who claimed what. You will not be dependent on a teacher or text for knowledge because like the ancient Gnostics, you will come to know it directly for yourself and be liberated of the need for any teacher or -ism. This is the great promise of Buddhism, which in translation the Dharma Editor for Wisdom Quarterly Dhr. Seven renders "Awakenism" (budh-ism).
The Four Ennobling (Enlightening) Truth, the Ennobling Eightfold Path, the 37 Requisites of Enlightenment, whatever this "-ism" is conceived or summarized as being, it is not the veneration of the historical Teacher, Teaching, and Taught, the Three Jewels of Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha. It is the personal recognition of buddhahood (as arhantship, pacceka-buddhahood, or samma-sam-buddhahood), self-realization, knowing-and-seeing beyond all doubt for oneself in this very life.
Of course, nowhere does the historical Buddha tell anyone to pursue supreme buddhahood in private (pacceka) or as a teacher (sammasam), as those taught to pursue the bodhisattva ideal are taught to believe, disparaging what the historical Buddha actually taught, which was for all humans and devas to practice for the realization of arhantship (awakening as a disciple of a supremely enlightened teacher).
The Path he rediscovered (as all buddhas before him did and after will) is what the Buddha taught, not a "religion," not words to repeat in faith and "try" to believe in.
Of course, people treat the Dharma, this Doctrine, as suits them best at this stage of their growth and understanding. And in this sphere of existence (called the kama-loka or "sensual sphere"), that will be the easiest or come as the most natural entrance. That can be very helpful. But one cannot remain there and think that the work, the kammatthana, is done. For just as a child naturally outgrows dependence on a good parent, so we as "hearers," as devoted (dayakas) disciples (savakas) of this path-of-practice will one day grow to the point of personal realization.
Only then will we have done as the Buddha bid his listeners to do for 45 years of his dispensation (sasana) up until his last sentence to human beings, perhaps still having a little more to say to the devas of some of the 31 Planes of Existence as he ascended and descended through the meditative absorptions or jhanas as his last act before final quenching, parinibbana (Sanskrit parinirvana), "final nirvana" without remainder, completely free of rebirth and all remaining traces of suffering whatsoever. What was his last admonition, echoing what he had been saying daily for the previous 45 years?
- The Buddha therefore taught his disciples: "Go, meditators, and seek secluded [quiet, peaceful, undisturbed] places. Be steadfast and resolute there. This is the way to have constant audience with the Tathagata (the Buddha, the Wayfarer). There is no need to come here to gather around the Tathagata. That is not the way. But rather, whoever has mindfulness and is diligent in all postures of the body [lying down, sitting up, standing, moving] immediately gives reverence and has audience with the Tathagata. Nonchalantly [carelessly, mindlessly, inattentively] sitting around is not the way to meet, nor to see, nor to have audience with the Tathagata. The Tathagata does not regard coming here and going away as having an audience with or taking leave of the Tathagata. The Tathagata considers diligence of the practice to eradicate defilements from the heart (mind), whether little or much, as steadily gaining audience with the Tathagata."
Black Elk: The first peace, which is the most important, is that which comes within the souls of people when they realize their relationship, their oneness, with the universe and all its powers, and when they realize that at the center of the universe dwells Wakan-Tanka, and that this center is really everywhere. It is within each of us. ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2015/03/realizing-ultimate
Dhamma and Non-duality by Bhikkhu Bodhi
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| Rev. MLK Jr. and Thich Nhat Hanh (aka Thay) |
- Zen Buddhist and Vietnam Era peace activist Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh sure seems to advocate for the Hindu-Mahayana Buddhist position by positing an "interbeing" philosophy
- Perfect Interpenetration: Thay, the prominent Vietnamese Zen Buddhist teacher, coined the term "interbeing" (French Interêtre, Vietnamese Tiếp Hiện) to explain Buddhist interpenetration metaphysics to modern people and help them develop some insight into the Mahyana Buddhist/Brahminical/Hindu view of reality [53, 54]. Though he was deeply versed in the complex doctrines of Huayan and Yogacara, his presentation of "interbeing" is noted for elegant simplicity that focuses on natural explanations and ethics [55], relying on stories and simple metaphors to convey the notion that all things exist in a state of interconnected being, a state of being [or becoming, bhava] interwoven and mutually dependent [53]. In his book Understanding Our Mind, he cites the apocryphal Mahayana Avatamsaka Sutra and the teachings of Huayan Master Fazang as the sources for his teaching of interbeing. More
Alagaddupama Sutta: "The Water-Snake Simile" (MN 22) translated from Pali by Ven. Thanissaro Bhikkhu. The Buddha explains why it is wrong to believe that the Five Aggregates [clung to as self] or the cosmos are the eternal self or soul. accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.022.than
(krodha)
•
11y ago. Dhamma and Non-duality by Bhikkhu Bodhi. "The teaching of the Buddha as found in the Pali canon does not endorse a philosophy of non-dualism of any variety, nor, I would add, can a non-dualistic perspective be found lying implicit within the Buddha's discourses."
Bhikkhu Bodhi is incorrect. Śākyamuni's teaching on the meaning of "non-dual" in Buddhism is found in the Kaccayanagotta Sutta.
(mad_bad_dangerous) •
11y ago. I believe interdependence and oneness are the same teaching.
- Story of HH Gyalwa Karmapa, Oct. 1974 (moved to top)
[deleted]
•
11y ago. Not directly answering your question, but just pointing you to something that you may be interested since you are asking this question. Robert and Rachel Olds are a couple who studied both with Tibetan Buddhist lamas and Native American teachers. They have written about their own experiences, which you may find interesting. They have also written about Buddhism, but it may be important to recognize that they are not Buddhist teachers themselves.
(numbersev) •
11y ago. The differences outweigh any similarities. Most similarities exist because we are bound within the same world and its properties such as impermanence, emptiness, and causation. Also keep in mind that native traditions are fragmented and can believe many different things where as Buddhism can be traced back to one buddha of our time with one set of teachings, following one ancient tradition that all buddhas teach.
Now I am at a stage in life where I am synthesizing all my interests and beliefs into a singular way of life.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perennial_philosophy
- Xochitl, Dhr. Seven, Ashley Wells, Crystal Q. (eds.), Wisdom Quarterly
_at_Rumtek_Monastery,_Sikkim_in_1971.jpg){kind=link}
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