Part II: The Secret(s) of Meditation

Wisdom Quarterly interview with Vern Lovic, Jhana8.com
Part I: The Secret(s) of Meditation

• [If not to reach out to everybody to tell them about these fantastic meditation experiences,] Why did you create a Web site, Jhana8.com, why do you post, what do you want to say to the world?

There is this feeling that I was nobody special before I sat to watch the breath. As I watched it, finally the mind slowed down a lot. Then thought stopped. I didn't get the idea -- in meditation or outside, that I was anything special at all.

• What do you mean?

It isn't like a "knowing" that I'm not special. That is different. There are things that were "known" to be true, and this isn't one of those things.

• Rumsfeld's known unknowns.
  

This is just an underlying feeling that I'm not different from anyone else on the planet. We're equal in a way that we maybe don't see or understand. But it's there. But it is also this feeling that I am not any more important than a rock, spit, the book on my desk, or the bird outside. Maybe it comes down to the idea that, the feeling that, the knowing that, everything is just as it is. It's all ONE, or maybe more accurately, it's just not different from each other. We're all of the same stuff.

• But something happened? You were changed by the experience of stillness and realization, serenity and insight?
  

Why did I make a site, why did I post, what do I have to say to the world?

• But you still post. Why do you post?
  

I get inspired sometimes, I guess, as I step outside of "me" and look at me compared to other people who are meditating.

I get inspired a bit when I meet with a couple of my monk friends at the temple where I exercise a lot. They ask me questions about jhana.

I get inspired by people writing me a lot and asking questions about how to get "unstuck" in meditation.

They've had glimpses of bliss coming on, the nimitta [the mental image counterpart sign of one's meditation object], etc. And they want to know what is next and how to GET there. I share it for people who are interested in searching for the information.

I think about me in the late 1990's, looking for information online. There was none. I think about various people on YouTube now with videos about meditation that are filled with the "religious" side of things -- the strong impulse to use words from the past to describe present day feelings, acts, experiences. I just want to offer another place/space in plain language to maybe help those who are not interested in Buddhism or any other -ism.

I'd like to offer meditation without religion, basically meditation as a physical act without the fluff. I see some value in that because it's what I identify with.

• This is what Wisdom Quarterly invites. We wrote you and contacted you personally to hear "secrets." You may not want to share a message with the public. Do you know the Four Imponderables?

Nope.

• You know, particularly the second imponderable:
  

The Four Imponderables
Wisdom Quarterly translation (AN 4.77)
"There are Four Imponderables that should NOT be pondered because to do so would cause one to be mentally vexed and become unhinged.

1. The range [influence] of a buddha...
2. The range of jhana of a person immersed in absorption [or the range of powers one is able to obtain by way of the absorptions] is imponderable and should not be pondered because to do so would cause one to be mentally vexed and become unhinged.
3. The [mysterious] working out of karma...
   
4. A first cause or origin of the world...

• We hope you receive this "interview" well and recognize the prompts embedded in it as loving. It may seem crude of us to ask and to push or to promote insight based on jhana. That is the superior value of absorption. Blessed be, kalyana mitta. And congratulations on your remarkable achievement(s)!

:) Thanks for the messages. It did prompt some thought that wasn't there before about the states, the meaning. It was interesting to go through it. It would probably be better if you just want to ask me anything and I'll try to respond.

• That's just it. We had no real question other than a big, "What?" "What is it?" "'What's what?'" "What's anything, what's the 'secret'?" "What is it you want to say to the world about meditation once you've succeeded?" You surprised us because the other successes we have met have answered what you first answered: "What's what?" But, of course, they didn't create a Web site or reach out to us telling us they had experienced something.
  

It's not as if there is some push inside me to keep sharing what happened and happens any more than writing the occasional article on the jhana8.com site. Recently I pulled 20 or so articles from the past from another site and am now dripping them on jhana8.com.

Many don't have dates on them. I think some are from 10 years ago. Some posts I wrote recently. I am going to do some videos about various experiences that went on -- that go on -- and maybe that will be interesting to someone.

I do have some idea lately that I should be doing more sharing, giving more information. Cheers and best to all, :) Vern

• Saddhu, saddhu, saddhu, and xie xie!