Wisdom Quarterly based on Maurice Walshe translation (Long Discourses of the Buddha 9)
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| Buddha eyes of wisdom, Swayambhunath Temple, Kathmandu, Nepal (whirledapart.com) |
1. Thus have I heard. Once the Buddha was staying at Sāvatthi, in
Jeta's Grove, in Anāthapiṇḍika’s Park. At that time the wanderer
Potthapāda was in the debating-hall near the Tinduka tree, in the
single-halled park of Queen Mallikā, with a large crowd of about 300 wanderers.
2. Then the Buddha, rising early, took his robe and bowl and went to Sāvatthi for alms. But it occurred to him: 'It is too early to go to Sāvatthi for alms. Suppose I were to go to the debating-hall to see the wanderer Pothapāda?' And he did so.
3. There Potthapāda was sitting with his wanderer-disciples, all shouting and making a great commotion, indulging in various kinds of unedifying conversation [animal talk], such as about: kings, robbers, ministers, armies, dangers, wars, food, drink, clothes, beds, garlands, perfumes, relatives, carriages, villages, towns and cities, countries, women, heroes, street- and well-gossip, talk of the departed, desultory chat, speculations about [the origins of] land and sea, talk of being and non-being.
4. But Potthapāda saw him coming from a distance. So he called his followers to order, saying: "Be quiet, gentlemen! Don't make a noise, gentlemen! That ascetic Gotama is coming, and he likes quiet and speaks in praise of quiet. If he sees that this company is quiet, he will most likely want to come and visit us." At this the wanderers fell silent.
5. The Buddha came to Potthapāda, who said: "Come, reverend sir, welcome, reverend sir! At last the reverend has gone out of his way to come here. Be seated, reverend. A seat is prepared."
The Buddha sat down on the prepared seat, and Potthapāda took a low stool and sat down to one side. The Buddha said:
"Potthapāda, what were you all talking about? What conversation have I interrupted?"
6. Potthapāda replied: "Reverend, never mind the conversation we were having just now. It will not be difficult for the Venerable One to hear about that later. In the past few days, reverend sir, the discussion among the ascetics and brahmins of various schools, sitting together and meeting in the debating-hall, has concerned the higher extinction of consciousness and how this takes place.
"Some said: 'One's perceptions arise and cease without cause or condition. When they arise, one is conscious. When they cease, one is unconscious.' That is how they explained it."
"But somebody else said: 'No, that is not how it is. Perceptions are a person's self, which comes and goes. When it comes, one is conscious. When it goes, one is unconscious.'
"Another said: 'That is not how it is. There are ascetics and brahmin priests of great power, of great influence. They draw down consciousness into a person and withdraw it. When they draw it down in, one is conscious. When they withdraw it, one is unconscious.'
"And another said: 'No, that is not how it is. There are deities [devas] of great powers, of great influence. They draw down consciousness into a person and withdraw it. When they draw it down, one is conscious. When they withdraw it, one is unconscious.'
"It was in this connection that I thought of the Blessed One: 'Ah, surely, the Blessed One, the Well-Farer is supremely knowledgeable about these matters! The Blessed One well understands the higher extinction of consciousness.' What then, venerable sir, is this higher extinction of consciousness?"
7. "In this matter, Potthapāda, those ascetics and brahmins who say one's perceptions arise and cease without cause or condition are totally wrong.
"Why is that? One's perceptions arise and cease owing to a cause and conditions. Some perceptions arise through training, and some pass away through training.
"What is this training? Potthapāda, a Tathāgata [Wayfarer] arises in this world -- an arhat, fully-enlightened buddha, endowed with wisdom and conduct, Well-Farer, Knower of the worlds, incomparable Trainer of humans to be tamed, Teacher of devas and humans, enlightened and blessed.
"One, having realized it by one's own super-knowledge, proclaims this world with its devas [shining ones], māras [destroyers], brahmās [creators], its princes, and people. One teaches the Dharma which is lovely in its beginning, middle, ending, in the spirit and in the letter, and displays the fully- perfected and purified supreme life. A disciple goes forth and practices the virtues...
8. "And then, Potthapāda, that meditator who is perfected in virtue sees no danger from any side..."
The 8 Meditative Absorptions
9-10. One guards the sense-doors... Having
reached the first meditative absorption (jhāna), one remains in it. And whatever sensations of
lust that one previously had disappear. At that time there is present a
true but subtle perception of delight and happiness, born of detachment,
and one is conscious of this delight and happiness. In
this way some perceptions arise through training, and some pass away
through training. And this is that training," said the Buddha.
11. "Again, a meditator, with the subsiding of applied and sustained attention, by gaining inner tranquility and unity of mind, reaches and remains in the second absorption, which is free from applied and sustained attention, born of concentration, filled with delight and happiness. One's former true but subtle perception of delight and happiness born of detachment vanishes. At that time there arises a true but subtle perception of delight and happiness born of concentration, and one becomes conscious of this delight and happiness. In this way some perceptions arise through training, and some pass away through training.
12. "Again, after the fading away of delight one dwells in equanimity, mindful and clearly aware, one experiences in one's body that pleasant feeling of which the Noble Ones say:
"And one reaches and remains in the third absorption. One's former true but subtle sense of delight and happiness born of concentration vanishes. There arises at that time a true but subtle sense of equanimity and happiness. And one becomes conscious of this true but subtle sense of equanimity and happiness. In this way some perceptions arise through training, and some pass away through training.
13. "Again, with the abandonment of pleasure and pain, and with the disappearance of previous joy and grief, one reaches and remains in the fourth absorption, a state beyond pleasure and pain, purified by equanimity and mindfulness. One's former true but subtle sense of equanimity and happiness vanishes. There arises a true but subtle sense of neither happiness nor unhappiness, and one is conscious of this true but subtle sense of neither happiness nor unhappiness. In this way some perceptions arise through training, and some pass away through training.
The 4 Immaterial Absorptions
14. "Again, by passing entirely beyond bodily
sensations, by the disappearance of all sense of resistance and by
non-attraction to the perception of diversity [called mental proliferation (papañca), the opposite of which (nippapañca) is a synonym for nirvana], seeing that space is
unbounded, one reaches and remains in [the fifth absorption called] the Sphere of Unbounded Space. In
this way some perceptions arise through training, and some pass away
through training.
15. "Again, by passing entirely beyond the Sphere of Unbounded Space, seeing that consciousness is unbounded, one reaches and remains in [the sixth absorption called] the Sphere of Unbounded Consciousness. In this way some perceptions arise through training, and some pass away through training.
16. "Again, by passing entirely beyond the Sphere of Unbounded Consciousness, seeing that there is no thing, one reaches and remains in [the seventh absorption called] the Sphere of No-Thingness. And one becomes conscious of this true but subtle perception of the Sphere of No-Thingness. In this way some perceptions arise through training, and some pass away through training. And this is that training," said the Buddha.
17. "Potthapāda, from the moment when a meditator has gained this controlled perception, that person proceeds from stage to stage until reaching the limit of perception [the eighth absorption, which is called the Sphere of Neither-Perception-Nor-Non-Perception]. When one has reached the limit of perception it occurs to the successful meditator: 'Mental activity is worse for me; lack of mental activity is better. If I were to think and imagine, these perceptions [that I have attained] would cease, and coarser perceptions would arise in me. Suppose I were not to think or imagine?'
"So one neither thinks nor imagines. And then, in this person, just these [fine] perceptions arise. But other, coarser perceptions do not arise. One attains cessation. And that, Potthapāda, is the way in which the cessation of perception is brought about by successive steps.
18. "What do you think, Potthapāda? Have you heard of this before?"
"No, venerable sir. As I understand it, the Venerable One has said: 'Potthapāda, from the moment when a meditator has gained this controlled perception, one proceeds from stage to stage until reaching the limit of perception... One attains cessation. And that is the way in which the cessation of perception is brought about by successive steps.'"
"That is right, Potthapāda."
19. "Venerable sir, do you teach that the summit of perception is just one or that it is many?"
"I teach it as both one and many."
"Venerable sir, how is it one, and how is it many?"
"According as one attains successively to the cessation of each perception, so I teach the summit of that perception: Thus I teach both one summit of perception, and I also teach many."
20. "Venerable sir, does perception arise before knowledge, or does knowledge arise before perception, or do both arise simultaneously?"
"Perception arises first, Potthapāda, then knowledge, and from the arising of perception comes the arising of knowledge. And one knows: 'Thus conditioned, knowledge arises.' In this way one can see how perception arises first, and then knowledge, and that from the arising of perception comes the arising of knowledge."
The "Self"
21. "Venerable sir, is perception a person's self, or is perception one thing and self another?"
"Well, Potthapāda, do you postulate a self?"
"Venerable sir, I postulate a gross self, material, composed of the four [great] elements [solidity, cohesion, support, temperature] and feeding on solid food."
"But with such a gross self, Potthapāda, perception would be one thing, and the self another. One can see that in this way. Given such a gross self, certain perceptions would arise in a person, and others pass away. In this way one can see that perception must be one thing, the self another."
22. "Venerable sir, I postulate a mind-made self complete with all its parts, not defective in [or not lacking] any sense-organ."
"But with such a mind-made self, perception would be one thing, and the self another…
23. "Venerable sir, I assume a formless self, made up of perception."
"But with such a formless self, perception would be one thing, and self another...'
24. "But venerable sir, is it possible for me to know whether perception is a person's self, or whether perception is one thing and self another?"
"Potthapāda, it is difficult for one of different views, a different doctrine, under different influences, with different pursuits and a different training to know whether these are two different things or not."
25. "Well, venerable sir, if this question of self and perceptions
is difficult for one like me -- tell me: Is the world eternal? Is only
this [view] true and the opposite false?"
"Potthapāda, I have not declared that the world is eternal and that the opposite view is false."
"Well, venerable sir, is the world not eternal?"
"I have not declared that the world is not eternal..."
"Well, venerable sir, is the world infinite...not infinite?..."
"I have not declared that the world is not infinite and that the opposite view is false.'
26. "Well, venerable sir, is the soul the same as the body... is the soul one thing and the body another?"
"I have not declared that the soul is one thing and the body another."
27. "Well, venerable sir, does the Tathāgata [a fully perfected and liberated person] exist after death? Is only this true and all else false?"
"I have not declared that the Tathāgata exists after death."
"Well, venerable sir, does the Tathāgata not exist after death... both exist and not exist after death? ...neither exist nor not exist after death?" [These are the four exhaustive logical categories in which teachers were placed.]
"I have not declared that the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death, and that all else is false."
28. "But, venerable sir, why has the Venerable One not declared these things?"
Potthapāda, that is not conducive to the purpose [liberation], not conducive to Dharma [liberating truth], not the way to embark on the supreme life; it does not lead to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to calm, to higher knowledge, to enlightenment, to nirvana. That is why I have not declared it."
29. "But, venerable sir, what has the Venerable One declared?"
"Potthapāda, I have declared: 'This is suffering, this is the origin of suffering, this is the cessation of suffering, and this is the path leading to the cessation of suffering.'" [These are the Four Ennobling Truths that summarize Buddhism in a nutshell since the Buddha teaches only suffering or disappointment and the complete end of suffering.]
30. "But, venerable sir, why has the Venerable One declared this?"
"Because, Potthapāda, this is conducive to the purpose [liberation], conducive to Dharma, the way to embark on the supreme life; it leads to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to calm, to higher knowledge, to enlightenment, to nirvana. That is why I have declared it."
"So it is, venerable sir. So it is, Well-Farer. And now is the time for the Blessed One to do as he sees fit." [Potthapada's reply was actually a more neutral expression that might be translated as: "That may be, venerable sir, that may be..."]
Then the Buddha rose from his seat and went away.
31. Then the wanderers, as soon as the Buddha had left, reproached, sneered, and jeered at Potthapāda from all sides, saying: 'Whatever the ascetic Gotama says, Potthapāda agrees with him: "So it is, venerable sir. So it is, Well-Farer!' We don't understand a word of the ascetic Gotama's whole discourse: 'Is the world eternal or not? -- Is it finite or infinite? -- Is the soul the same as the body or different? -- Does the Tathāgata exist after death or not, or both, or neither?'"
Potthapāda replied: "I don't understand either about whether the world is eternal or not... or whether the Tathāgata exists after death or not, or both, or neither. But the ascetic Gotama teaches a true and real way of practice which is consonant with Dharma and grounded in Dharma. And why should not a person like me express approval of such a true and real practice, so well taught by the ascetic Gotama?"
32. Two or three days later, Citta, the son of the elephant-trainer, went with Potthapāda to see the Buddha. Citta prostrated himself before the Buddha and sat down to one side. Potthapāda exchanged courtesies with the Buddha, sat down to one side, and told him what had happened.
33. "Potthapāda, all those wanderers are blind and sightless. You alone among them are sighted. Some things I have taught and pointed out, Potthapāda, as being certain and others as being uncertain. Which are the things I have pointed out as uncertain? 'The world is eternal'... 'The Tathāgata exists after death...' I have declared to be uncertain. Why? Because they are not conducive [to the purpose, to Dharma, no way to embark on the supreme life; they do not lead to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to calm, to higher knowledge, to enlightenment,] to nirvana. That is why I have declared them as uncertain.
"But what things have I pointed out as certain? 'This is suffering, this is the origin of suffering, this is the cessation of suffering, this is the path leading to the cessation of suffering.' Why? Because they are conducive to the purpose, conducive to Dharma, the way to embark on the supreme life; they lead to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to calm, to higher knowledge, to enlightenment, to nirvana. That is why I have declared them as certain.
34. "Potthapāda, there are some [wandering] ascetics and brahmin [priests] who declare and believe that after death the self is entirely happy and free from ill. I approached them and asked if this was indeed what they declared and believed.
"And they replied: 'Yes.' Then I said: 'Do you, friends, living in the world, know and see it as an entirely happy place?' and they replied: 'No.' I said: 'Have you ever experienced a single night or day, or half a night or day, that was entirely happy?' and they replied: 'No.'
"I said: 'Do you know a path or a practice whereby an entirely happy world might be brought about?' and they replied: 'No.' I said: 'Have you heard the voices of devas who have been reborn in an entirely happy world, saying: "The attainment of an entirely happy world has been well and rightly gained, and we, gentlemen, have been reborn in such a realm?"' and they replied: 'No.'
"What do you think, Potthapāda? Such being the case, does not the talk of those ascetics and brahmins turn out to be foolish?
The Most Beautiful Girl
35. "It is
just as if a man were to say: 'I am going to seek out and love the most
beautiful girl in the country.' They might say to him: 'Well, as to this
most beautiful girl in the country, do you know whether she belongs to
the warrior caste, the brahmin, the merchant, or the artisan caste?' and he
would say: 'No.' Then they might say: 'Well, do you know her name, her
clan, whether she is tall or short or of medium height, whether she is
dark or light-complexioned or sallow-skinned, or what village or town or
city she comes from?' and he would say: 'No.' And they might say: 'Well
then, you don't know or see the one you seek for and desire?' and he
would say: 'No.' Does not the talk of that man turn out to be foolish?"
"Certainly, venerable sir."
36. "And so it is with those ascetics and brahmins who declare and believe that after death the self is entirely happy and free from ill... Does not their talk turn out to be foolish?"
"Certainly, venerable sir."
37. "It is just as if a man were to build a staircase for a palace at a crossroads. People might say to him: 'Well now, this staircase for a palace that you are building -- do you know whether the palace will face east, or west, or north, or south, or whether it will be high, low, or of medium height?' and he would say: 'No.' And they might say: 'Well then, you don't know or see what kind of a palace you are building the staircase for?' and he would say: 'No.' Don't you think that man's talk would turn out to be foolish?"
"Certainly, venerable sir."
38. (as Verse 34)
39. "Potthapāda, there are three kinds of 'acquired self':
2. Then the Buddha, rising early, took his robe and bowl and went to Sāvatthi for alms. But it occurred to him: 'It is too early to go to Sāvatthi for alms. Suppose I were to go to the debating-hall to see the wanderer Pothapāda?' And he did so.
3. There Potthapāda was sitting with his wanderer-disciples, all shouting and making a great commotion, indulging in various kinds of unedifying conversation [animal talk], such as about: kings, robbers, ministers, armies, dangers, wars, food, drink, clothes, beds, garlands, perfumes, relatives, carriages, villages, towns and cities, countries, women, heroes, street- and well-gossip, talk of the departed, desultory chat, speculations about [the origins of] land and sea, talk of being and non-being.
4. But Potthapāda saw him coming from a distance. So he called his followers to order, saying: "Be quiet, gentlemen! Don't make a noise, gentlemen! That ascetic Gotama is coming, and he likes quiet and speaks in praise of quiet. If he sees that this company is quiet, he will most likely want to come and visit us." At this the wanderers fell silent.
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| (Pranavbhasin.com) |
5. The Buddha came to Potthapāda, who said: "Come, reverend sir, welcome, reverend sir! At last the reverend has gone out of his way to come here. Be seated, reverend. A seat is prepared."
The Buddha sat down on the prepared seat, and Potthapāda took a low stool and sat down to one side. The Buddha said:
"Potthapāda, what were you all talking about? What conversation have I interrupted?"
6. Potthapāda replied: "Reverend, never mind the conversation we were having just now. It will not be difficult for the Venerable One to hear about that later. In the past few days, reverend sir, the discussion among the ascetics and brahmins of various schools, sitting together and meeting in the debating-hall, has concerned the higher extinction of consciousness and how this takes place.
"Some said: 'One's perceptions arise and cease without cause or condition. When they arise, one is conscious. When they cease, one is unconscious.' That is how they explained it."
"But somebody else said: 'No, that is not how it is. Perceptions are a person's self, which comes and goes. When it comes, one is conscious. When it goes, one is unconscious.'
"Another said: 'That is not how it is. There are ascetics and brahmin priests of great power, of great influence. They draw down consciousness into a person and withdraw it. When they draw it down in, one is conscious. When they withdraw it, one is unconscious.'
"And another said: 'No, that is not how it is. There are deities [devas] of great powers, of great influence. They draw down consciousness into a person and withdraw it. When they draw it down, one is conscious. When they withdraw it, one is unconscious.'
"It was in this connection that I thought of the Blessed One: 'Ah, surely, the Blessed One, the Well-Farer is supremely knowledgeable about these matters! The Blessed One well understands the higher extinction of consciousness.' What then, venerable sir, is this higher extinction of consciousness?"
7. "In this matter, Potthapāda, those ascetics and brahmins who say one's perceptions arise and cease without cause or condition are totally wrong.
"Why is that? One's perceptions arise and cease owing to a cause and conditions. Some perceptions arise through training, and some pass away through training.
"What is this training? Potthapāda, a Tathāgata [Wayfarer] arises in this world -- an arhat, fully-enlightened buddha, endowed with wisdom and conduct, Well-Farer, Knower of the worlds, incomparable Trainer of humans to be tamed, Teacher of devas and humans, enlightened and blessed.
"One, having realized it by one's own super-knowledge, proclaims this world with its devas [shining ones], māras [destroyers], brahmās [creators], its princes, and people. One teaches the Dharma which is lovely in its beginning, middle, ending, in the spirit and in the letter, and displays the fully- perfected and purified supreme life. A disciple goes forth and practices the virtues...
8. "And then, Potthapāda, that meditator who is perfected in virtue sees no danger from any side..."
The 8 Meditative Absorptions
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| Meditate, alone or together, to know and see. |
11. "Again, a meditator, with the subsiding of applied and sustained attention, by gaining inner tranquility and unity of mind, reaches and remains in the second absorption, which is free from applied and sustained attention, born of concentration, filled with delight and happiness. One's former true but subtle perception of delight and happiness born of detachment vanishes. At that time there arises a true but subtle perception of delight and happiness born of concentration, and one becomes conscious of this delight and happiness. In this way some perceptions arise through training, and some pass away through training.
12. "Again, after the fading away of delight one dwells in equanimity, mindful and clearly aware, one experiences in one's body that pleasant feeling of which the Noble Ones say:
'Happy dwells the person of equanimity and
mindfulness.'
"And one reaches and remains in the third absorption. One's former true but subtle sense of delight and happiness born of concentration vanishes. There arises at that time a true but subtle sense of equanimity and happiness. And one becomes conscious of this true but subtle sense of equanimity and happiness. In this way some perceptions arise through training, and some pass away through training.
13. "Again, with the abandonment of pleasure and pain, and with the disappearance of previous joy and grief, one reaches and remains in the fourth absorption, a state beyond pleasure and pain, purified by equanimity and mindfulness. One's former true but subtle sense of equanimity and happiness vanishes. There arises a true but subtle sense of neither happiness nor unhappiness, and one is conscious of this true but subtle sense of neither happiness nor unhappiness. In this way some perceptions arise through training, and some pass away through training.
The 4 Immaterial Absorptions
15. "Again, by passing entirely beyond the Sphere of Unbounded Space, seeing that consciousness is unbounded, one reaches and remains in [the sixth absorption called] the Sphere of Unbounded Consciousness. In this way some perceptions arise through training, and some pass away through training.
16. "Again, by passing entirely beyond the Sphere of Unbounded Consciousness, seeing that there is no thing, one reaches and remains in [the seventh absorption called] the Sphere of No-Thingness. And one becomes conscious of this true but subtle perception of the Sphere of No-Thingness. In this way some perceptions arise through training, and some pass away through training. And this is that training," said the Buddha.
17. "Potthapāda, from the moment when a meditator has gained this controlled perception, that person proceeds from stage to stage until reaching the limit of perception [the eighth absorption, which is called the Sphere of Neither-Perception-Nor-Non-Perception]. When one has reached the limit of perception it occurs to the successful meditator: 'Mental activity is worse for me; lack of mental activity is better. If I were to think and imagine, these perceptions [that I have attained] would cease, and coarser perceptions would arise in me. Suppose I were not to think or imagine?'
"So one neither thinks nor imagines. And then, in this person, just these [fine] perceptions arise. But other, coarser perceptions do not arise. One attains cessation. And that, Potthapāda, is the way in which the cessation of perception is brought about by successive steps.
18. "What do you think, Potthapāda? Have you heard of this before?"
"No, venerable sir. As I understand it, the Venerable One has said: 'Potthapāda, from the moment when a meditator has gained this controlled perception, one proceeds from stage to stage until reaching the limit of perception... One attains cessation. And that is the way in which the cessation of perception is brought about by successive steps.'"
"That is right, Potthapāda."
19. "Venerable sir, do you teach that the summit of perception is just one or that it is many?"
"I teach it as both one and many."
"Venerable sir, how is it one, and how is it many?"
"According as one attains successively to the cessation of each perception, so I teach the summit of that perception: Thus I teach both one summit of perception, and I also teach many."
20. "Venerable sir, does perception arise before knowledge, or does knowledge arise before perception, or do both arise simultaneously?"
"Perception arises first, Potthapāda, then knowledge, and from the arising of perception comes the arising of knowledge. And one knows: 'Thus conditioned, knowledge arises.' In this way one can see how perception arises first, and then knowledge, and that from the arising of perception comes the arising of knowledge."
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| The sublime, peaceful Dharma is often represented by an eight-spoke wheel of the path (BPS) |
The "Self"
21. "Venerable sir, is perception a person's self, or is perception one thing and self another?"
"Well, Potthapāda, do you postulate a self?"
"Venerable sir, I postulate a gross self, material, composed of the four [great] elements [solidity, cohesion, support, temperature] and feeding on solid food."
"But with such a gross self, Potthapāda, perception would be one thing, and the self another. One can see that in this way. Given such a gross self, certain perceptions would arise in a person, and others pass away. In this way one can see that perception must be one thing, the self another."
22. "Venerable sir, I postulate a mind-made self complete with all its parts, not defective in [or not lacking] any sense-organ."
"But with such a mind-made self, perception would be one thing, and the self another…
23. "Venerable sir, I assume a formless self, made up of perception."
"But with such a formless self, perception would be one thing, and self another...'
24. "But venerable sir, is it possible for me to know whether perception is a person's self, or whether perception is one thing and self another?"
"Potthapāda, it is difficult for one of different views, a different doctrine, under different influences, with different pursuits and a different training to know whether these are two different things or not."
Fruitless Philosophical Speculations
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| Tibetan monks from different sects (wn.com) |
"Potthapāda, I have not declared that the world is eternal and that the opposite view is false."
"Well, venerable sir, is the world not eternal?"
"I have not declared that the world is not eternal..."
"Well, venerable sir, is the world infinite...not infinite?..."
"I have not declared that the world is not infinite and that the opposite view is false.'
26. "Well, venerable sir, is the soul the same as the body... is the soul one thing and the body another?"
"I have not declared that the soul is one thing and the body another."
27. "Well, venerable sir, does the Tathāgata [a fully perfected and liberated person] exist after death? Is only this true and all else false?"
"I have not declared that the Tathāgata exists after death."
"Well, venerable sir, does the Tathāgata not exist after death... both exist and not exist after death? ...neither exist nor not exist after death?" [These are the four exhaustive logical categories in which teachers were placed.]
"I have not declared that the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death, and that all else is false."
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| Monks ritually dispute and argue (wn.com) |
Potthapāda, that is not conducive to the purpose [liberation], not conducive to Dharma [liberating truth], not the way to embark on the supreme life; it does not lead to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to calm, to higher knowledge, to enlightenment, to nirvana. That is why I have not declared it."
29. "But, venerable sir, what has the Venerable One declared?"
"Potthapāda, I have declared: 'This is suffering, this is the origin of suffering, this is the cessation of suffering, and this is the path leading to the cessation of suffering.'" [These are the Four Ennobling Truths that summarize Buddhism in a nutshell since the Buddha teaches only suffering or disappointment and the complete end of suffering.]
30. "But, venerable sir, why has the Venerable One declared this?"
"Because, Potthapāda, this is conducive to the purpose [liberation], conducive to Dharma, the way to embark on the supreme life; it leads to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to calm, to higher knowledge, to enlightenment, to nirvana. That is why I have declared it."
"So it is, venerable sir. So it is, Well-Farer. And now is the time for the Blessed One to do as he sees fit." [Potthapada's reply was actually a more neutral expression that might be translated as: "That may be, venerable sir, that may be..."]
Then the Buddha rose from his seat and went away.
31. Then the wanderers, as soon as the Buddha had left, reproached, sneered, and jeered at Potthapāda from all sides, saying: 'Whatever the ascetic Gotama says, Potthapāda agrees with him: "So it is, venerable sir. So it is, Well-Farer!' We don't understand a word of the ascetic Gotama's whole discourse: 'Is the world eternal or not? -- Is it finite or infinite? -- Is the soul the same as the body or different? -- Does the Tathāgata exist after death or not, or both, or neither?'"
Potthapāda replied: "I don't understand either about whether the world is eternal or not... or whether the Tathāgata exists after death or not, or both, or neither. But the ascetic Gotama teaches a true and real way of practice which is consonant with Dharma and grounded in Dharma. And why should not a person like me express approval of such a true and real practice, so well taught by the ascetic Gotama?"
32. Two or three days later, Citta, the son of the elephant-trainer, went with Potthapāda to see the Buddha. Citta prostrated himself before the Buddha and sat down to one side. Potthapāda exchanged courtesies with the Buddha, sat down to one side, and told him what had happened.
33. "Potthapāda, all those wanderers are blind and sightless. You alone among them are sighted. Some things I have taught and pointed out, Potthapāda, as being certain and others as being uncertain. Which are the things I have pointed out as uncertain? 'The world is eternal'... 'The Tathāgata exists after death...' I have declared to be uncertain. Why? Because they are not conducive [to the purpose, to Dharma, no way to embark on the supreme life; they do not lead to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to calm, to higher knowledge, to enlightenment,] to nirvana. That is why I have declared them as uncertain.
"But what things have I pointed out as certain? 'This is suffering, this is the origin of suffering, this is the cessation of suffering, this is the path leading to the cessation of suffering.' Why? Because they are conducive to the purpose, conducive to Dharma, the way to embark on the supreme life; they lead to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to calm, to higher knowledge, to enlightenment, to nirvana. That is why I have declared them as certain.
34. "Potthapāda, there are some [wandering] ascetics and brahmin [priests] who declare and believe that after death the self is entirely happy and free from ill. I approached them and asked if this was indeed what they declared and believed.
"And they replied: 'Yes.' Then I said: 'Do you, friends, living in the world, know and see it as an entirely happy place?' and they replied: 'No.' I said: 'Have you ever experienced a single night or day, or half a night or day, that was entirely happy?' and they replied: 'No.'
"I said: 'Do you know a path or a practice whereby an entirely happy world might be brought about?' and they replied: 'No.' I said: 'Have you heard the voices of devas who have been reborn in an entirely happy world, saying: "The attainment of an entirely happy world has been well and rightly gained, and we, gentlemen, have been reborn in such a realm?"' and they replied: 'No.'
"What do you think, Potthapāda? Such being the case, does not the talk of those ascetics and brahmins turn out to be foolish?
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"Certainly, venerable sir."
36. "And so it is with those ascetics and brahmins who declare and believe that after death the self is entirely happy and free from ill... Does not their talk turn out to be foolish?"
"Certainly, venerable sir."
37. "It is just as if a man were to build a staircase for a palace at a crossroads. People might say to him: 'Well now, this staircase for a palace that you are building -- do you know whether the palace will face east, or west, or north, or south, or whether it will be high, low, or of medium height?' and he would say: 'No.' And they might say: 'Well then, you don't know or see what kind of a palace you are building the staircase for?' and he would say: 'No.' Don't you think that man's talk would turn out to be foolish?"
"Certainly, venerable sir."
38. (as Verse 34)
39. "Potthapāda, there are three kinds of 'acquired self':
- the gross acquired self
- the mind-made acquired self
- the formless acquired self.
40. "But I teach a doctrine for getting rid of the gross acquired self, whereby defiling mental states disappear and states tending to purification grow strong. And one gains and remains in the purity and perfection of wisdom here and now, having realized and attained it by one's own super-knowledge.
The Cause of Unhappiness
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| (Stephen the Photofan/Flickr.com) |
"That is NOT how it should
be regarded. If defiling states disappear... nothing but happiness and
delight develops, tranquility, mindfulness and clear awareness -- and
that is a happy state.
41. "I also teach a doctrine [a dharma] for getting rid of the mind-made acquired self... (as Verse 40).
42. "I also teach a doctrine for getting rid of the formless acquired self... (as Verse 40).
43. "Potthapāda, if others ask us: 'What, friend, is this gross acquired self whose abandonment you preach...?' being so asked, we should reply: 'This is that gross acquired self for the getting rid of which we teach a doctrine..."
44. "If others ask us: 'What is this mind-made acquired self...?" (as Verse 43).
45. "If others ask us: 'What is this formless acquired self...?' (as Verse 43). What do you think, Potthapāda? Does not that statement turn out to be well-founded?"
"Certainly, venerable sir."
46. "It is just as if a man were to build a staircase for a palace, which was below that palace. They might say to him: 'Well now, this staircase for a palace that you are building, do you know whether the palace will face east or west, or north or south, or whether it will be high, low or of medium height?' and he would say: 'This staircase is right under the palace.' Don't you think that man's statement would be well-founded?"
"Certainly, venerable sir."
47. "In just the same way, Potthapāda, if others ask us:
- 'What is this gross acquired self...?'
- 'What is this mind-made acquired self...?'
- 'What is this formless acquired self...?'
"Certainly, venerable sir."
48. At this, Citta, son of the elephant-trainer, said to the Buddha: "Venerable sir, whenever the gross acquired self is present, would it be wrong to assume the existence of the mind-made acquired self or of the formless acquired self? Does only the gross acquired self truly exist then? And similarly with the mind-made acquired self and the formless acquired self?"
49. "Citta, whenever the gross acquired self is present, we do not at that time speak of a mind-made acquired self, we do not speak of a formless acquired self. We speak only of a gross acquired self. Whenever the mind-made acquired self is present, we speak only of a mind-made acquired self. And whenever the formless acquired self is present, we speak only of a formless acquired self.
"Citta, suppose they were to ask you: 'Did you exist in the past or didn't you? Will you exist in the future or won't you? Do you exist now or don't you?' how would you answer?"
"Venerable sir, if I were asked such a question, I would say: 'I did exist in the past; I did not not exist. I shall exist in the future; I shall not not exist. I do exist now; I do not not exist.' That, venerable sir, would be my answer."
50. "But, Citta, if they asked: 'The past acquired self that you had, is that your only true acquired self, and are the future and present ones false? Or is the one you will have in the future the only true one, and are the past and present ones false? Or is your present acquired self the only true one, and are the past and future ones false?' how would you reply?"
"Venerable sir, if they asked me these things, I would reply: 'My past acquired self was at the time my only true one, whereas the future and present ones were false. My future acquired self will then be the only true one, whereas the past and present ones will be false. My present acquired self is now the only true one, whereas the past and future ones are false.' That is how I would reply."
51. "In just the same way, Citta, whenever the gross acquired self is present, we do not at that time speak of a mind-made acquired self... [or] of a formless acquired self.
52. "In just the same way, Citta, from the cow we get milk, from the milk curds, from the curds butter, from the butter ghee [clarified butter], and from the ghee cream of ghee [creme de la creme]. And when there is milk we don't speak of curds, of butter, of ghee, or of cream of ghee. We speak of milk. When there are curds we don't speak of butter... When there is cream of ghee... we speak of cream of ghee.
53. "So too, whenever the gross acquired self is present, we do not speak of the mind-made or formless acquired self; whenever the mind-made acquired self is present, we do not speak of the gross or formless acquired self; whenever the formless acquired self is present, we do not speak of the gross acquired self or the mind-made acquired self. We speak of the formless acquired self.
But, Citta, these are merely names [conventional speech], expressions, turns of speech, designations in common use in the world, which the Tathāgata uses without misapprehending them."
And at these words Potthapāda the wanderer said to the Buddha: "Excellent, venerable sir, excellent! It is as if someone were to set up what had been knocked down, or to point out the way to one who had gotten lost, or to bring a lamp into a dark place, so that those with eyes could see what was there.
"Just so has the Blessed One expounded the Dharma in various ways. Venerable sir, I go for refuge to the Venerable One, the Dharma, and the [Noble] Sangha. May the Venerable One accept me as a lay-follower who has gone for guidance to him from this day forth as long as life shall last!"
55. But Citta, son of the elephant-trainer, said to the Buddha: "Excellent, venerable sir, excellent! It is as if someone were to set up what had been knocked down, or to point out the way to one who had gotten lost, or to bring a lamp into a dark place, so that those with eyes could see what was there. Just so has the Blessed One expounded the Dharma in various ways. Venerable sir, I go for guidance to the Venerable One, the Dharma, and the [Noble] Sangha. May I, venerable sir, receive the going-forth at the Venerable One's hands. May I receive [monastic] ordination!"
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| Enlightenment is the arising of insight-wisdom. |
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