Narrow is a Fragile Heart: Western nun

Episode 62: A Narrow Heart is a Fragile Heart | How to Stop Feeling So Alone

 

(Handful OfLeaves) Handful of Leaves Podcast. Support British Bhutanese Vajrayana Buddhist nun Ani Pema Deki's charity fundraiser: openingyourhearttobhutan.com.

• Buddhism in Bhutan

"Opening Your Heart to Bhutan" is a registered UK charity, whose work is providing education, medicine, and shelter to children facing the greatest challenges in Bhutan.

In this episode, Lopen Ani Pema Deki (Ven. Emma Slade) — a former London investment banker who left after a near-death experience in Jakarta (Indonesia) to ordain as a Buddhist nun high in the Himalayas of Bhutan — explores what it means to widen the heart and become truly unbreakable.

She contrasts fleeting, manufactured happiness with the effortless joy that arises from practice, explains how small acts of kindness build resilience, and reflects on faith, karma, and why some people in Bhutan seem less vulnerable to life's ups and downs.

Perfect for listeners curious about practical spirituality, courage, and living with greater purpose.

Key Takeaways:

• 🧭 Choose Liberation, Not Comfort — Why training the mind matters, and how practice aims for freedom from samsara rather than temporary ease.
• 💫 Real Joy vs. Manufactured Bliss — The difference between practice-born joy (stable, effortless) and short-lived worldly pleasures.
• 🤝 Small Acts, Big Heart — Two-minute kindnesses, widening our circle of care, and the role of faith/teacher in sustaining practice.

⏱Timestamps:

• (00:00) – Introduction to Lopen Ani Pema Deki (Ven. Emma Slade), former banker turned Buddhist nun
• (01:00) – The challenge of practicing Dharma in a busy modern life
• (02:31) – Are we seeking comfort in samsara or liberation?
• (02:51) – What happiness really means from a Buddhist perspective
• (03:40) – Joy and bliss: natural results of Dharma practice vs. worldly joy
• (05:28) – Reflections on Bhutan and why happiness can’t be measured easily
• (06:20) – Mental resilience and faith in Bhutanese life
• (07:17) – Small daily acts of kindness in a busy life
• (07:53) – Expanding motivation beyond yourself and loved ones
• (08:52) – Why bother about anyone else besides your loved ones?
• (09:20) – Why widening your heart supports resilience
• (10:24) – The Bodhisattva path: stretching beyond your comfort zone
• (11:14) – How British Lopen Ani Pema Deki (Ven. Emma Slade) became a Buddhist and later a Buddhist nun
• (11:40) – Meeting her teacher in Bhutan
• (12:24) – Moments of clarity and deep spiritual connection
• (14:27) – Karma and how Lopen Ani Pema Deki (Ven. Emma Slade)’s path ripened in Bhutan
• (15:18) – Sneak preview of Part 2

ABOUT THE SPEAKER: 👤 Lopen Ani Pema Deki (Venerable Emma Slade) was born in Kent, England, and was educated at Cambridge University and the University of London, where she gained a First-Class degree. She is a qualified Chartered Financial Analyst (CFA) and worked in Fund Management in London, New York, and Hong Kong. A deep-seated yearning to enquire into the deeper aspects of humanity arose following a life-changing business trip to Jakarta, where she was held hostage at gunpoint. She resigned from her financial career and began exploring yoga and meditation and methods of wellbeing with the ultimate aim of turning a traumatic episode into wisdom and conditions for thriving. She qualified as a British Wheel of Yoga teacher in 2003 and, over the last 19 years, has run numerous yoga workshops and retreats. ​ Her interest in Buddhism as a science of the mind strengthened after meeting a Buddhist lama (teacher) on her first visit to Bhutan in 2011.

This crucial chance meeting led to her studying Buddhism with this lama and, eventually, led to her becoming the first and only Western woman to be ordained in the last Himalayan [Buddhist] Kingdom of Bhutan as a Buddhist nun. #OpeningYourHeart #BuddhistWisdom #MindfulLiving #FaithAndPractice

• 📄 Transcript: bit.ly/hol-ep-62

Resources:

• Lopen Ani Pema Deki (Ven. Emma Slade) website: emmaslade.com
• Lopen Ani Pema Deki (Ven. Emma Slade) charity fundraiser: openingyourhearttobhutan.com

Special thanks to sponsors:

Buddhist Youth Network, Lim Soon Kiat, Alvin Chan, Tan Key Seng, Soh Hwee Hoon, Geraldine Tay, Venerable You Guang, Wilson Ng, Diga, Joyce, Tan Jia Yee, Joanne, Suñña, Shuo Mei, Arif, Bernice, Wee Teck, Andrew Yam, Kan Rong Hui, Wei Li Quek, Shirley Shen, Ezra, Joanne Chan, Hsien Li Siaw, Gillian Ang, Wang Shiow Mei, Ong Chye Chye, Melvin, Yoke Kuen, Nai Kai Lee, Amelia Toh, Hannah Law, Shin Hui Chong, Dennis Lee

• 🙏 Become a sponsor: handfulofleaves.life/support

🎬 Editor: Hong Jiayi ✍️ Transcribers: Cheryl Cheah, Tan Si Jing, Bernice Bay 🎨 Visuals and Sound: Anton Thorne, Tan Pei Shan, Ang You Shan 📱 Get connected: Telegram: bit.ly/hol-telegram. Instagram: bit.ly/hol-instagram-podcast. Facebook bit.ly/hol-facebook-podcast. Spotify spoti.fi/3w2jfQ1.

• Handful OfLeaves, Sept. 23, 2025; Dhr. Seven, Amber Larson, Ananda (Dharma Buddhist Meditation), Jen B. (eds.), Wisdom Quarterly, orig. 12/19/25

Jewish Brit exposes America (Borat)

(Amazon Prime Video UK & IE) The very best of Borat's pranks | Prime Video

(JoBlo Movie Clips) Borat Pamela Anderson scene, Hollywood

(The Clean Laugh Club) Ricky Gervais: Truth about Epstein's Island, Hawking

Buddhist David Bowie on End of Religion

David Bowie: Major Tom's Odyssey: "Space Oddity"

(T&H - Inspiration & Motivation) David Bowie on the real purpose of life

David Bowie at the Scottish Buddhist Kagyu Samye Ling Monastery and Tibetan Centre with his lama Guru Chime Rinpoche almost ordained as Vajrayana Buddhist monk for a life of contemplation and peace

British couple travel to SoCal 'paradise'

(Those Happy Days) As an adventurous British couple into skate punk, we ignored the warnings about expensive Southern California (in search of bangers and mash or other bad toxic food and drink like cheap fast food burgers, fried potatoes, and nauseating pints).

We traveled from state to state, driving from affordable Arizona to the warm beach town of San Diego on the tip of SoCal on the border with Mexico, which everyone calls the Mexican border.

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (BBC)

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Primary Phase (1)

"Don't Panic"

This work of pure comedic genius began as a BBC Radio play by Douglas Adams (who was the first to think to combine science fiction and comedy), the audio of which is presented here: The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. It became so popular that it became a book then a sequel then a series then a trilogy with additional installments that made calling it a "trilogy" more and more misleading. It is perhaps the single funniest piece of work we have ever heard, a masterpiece.

• The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (Audible Audio Edition): Douglas Adams, Stephen Fry, Random House Audio
• The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: The Primary Phase (dramatized) (Audible Audio Edition): Douglas Adams, Full Cast: Peter Jones, Susan Sheridan, Simon Jones, Geoffrey McGivern, Mark Wing-Davey, Stephen Moore, BBC Digital Audio

How to sell your soul: The Led Zep way

BEAVIS AND BUTT HEAD REVIEW "DEVIL'S JOHNSON" BY ETHYL MEATPLOW

(Mr. Mythos) The Curse of Led Zeppelin | Music's Dark Side

The demon Mephistopheles

Mephistopheles (German /MEF-ist-OF-il-eez/) is a demon in German folklore who is also known as Mephostophilis [1] and Mephisto [2].

He originated as the chief devil in the Faust legend (Faustian bargain) [3]. This demon has since become a stock character appearing in other works of arts and popular culture.

Mephistopheles never became an integral part of traditional magic [4]. More

• I'll make a deal with the Devil to give me musical talent. Where's the nearest crossroads at? (Robert Johnson)
• Bobbing on the Devil's Johnson?
• ReMastered: Devil at the Crossroads (Netflix)
• The Tritone or "Devil's interval" (dissonance)

The process explained in animation

Bauhaus "Party of the First Part" (animated music video)

Primus "The Devil Went Down to Georgia" (official music video)

What did Led Zep know and when?

(Led Zeppelin Untold) Jimmy Page's final warning: What Led

Zeppelin knew before drunkard drummer John Bonham died

Who invented "hard rock"?

(Rock&RollClassic) Ten songs that invented hard rock

Voice of Zen Buddhism Alan Watts wrong?

(Buddha's Wisdom) Was Alan Watts wrong about Buddhism? The truth behind the "Voice of Zen"

• When Buddhism met Taoism: The hidden birth of Zen

Alan Watts: Zen means jhana (absorption, dhyana) - Zen (Tao) of effortlessness, soft power

Becoming interested in Zen: Alan Watts - Alan Watts: wu wei, with the Way (Taoist)

How can I effortlessly go with the flow?

Wu wei (無為, 无为, wúwéi) is a concept from ancient pre-Buddhist Chinese philosophy that literally means "not-acting" or "non-doing," variously interpreted and translated as "noninterference," "action-lessness," "inaction," or "effortless action" [1, 2].

In Taoism, it denotes the nature of Tao, meaning that while Tao (the Way, Path, or flow of nature, acting in accordance with the natural course of things), is the source of all existence and the manifestation of all phenomena, its intrinsic formless essence is that it acts or moves in a silent, invisible, ineffable, often-unnoticed manner that may even seem motionless and effortless [3, 4, 5, 6, 7].

It's all a matter of seeing the Suchness!

Accordingly, Taoists (and subsequently Zen Buddhist practitioners) aspire to live their lives in alignment with such a harmonious state of free flowing and unforced activity. In a political context, it also refers to an ideal form or principle of spontaneous and non-aggressive form of governing [8]. More

Zen Reconsidered: It's all "Suchness"

(Alan Watts) Zen Reconsidered: Suchness (full lecture by Alan Watts on Buddhism)

• 50 years without Alan Watts: A timeless echo in today’s culture (The Brussels Times, 2023)

What is "suchness"?

What is Suchness? All is Suchness.

Tathātā (Sanskrit तथाता, Pali tathatā) is a Buddhist term variously translated as "Suchness," "Thusness," "True Thusness," or "True Suchness," referring to the Ultimate Reality, the intrinsic and essential nature of all existence, free of dualistic thinking, conceptualization, subject–object distinctions [1].

It is formless, uncreated, eternal, perfect, unchanging, indestructible, and is the true nature of all phenomena. It represents the genuine reality of existence, which transcends physical forms, physical senses, and intellectual comprehension, indicating a profound insight into the nature of things as they truly are [2, 3, 4].

Tathātā has a large number of synonyms found in different Buddhist schools, traditions, and scriptures, such as:

• Emptiness (śūnyatā 空),
• Reality Realm (bhūta-koṭi 實際、實相),
• True Suchness (bhūta-tathatā 真如),
• Dharma Nature (Dharmatā 法爾、法然、法性),
• Dharma Realm (Dharma-dhātu 法界),
• Dharma Body (Dharma-kāya 法身),
• Nirvana (Nirvāṇa 涅槃),
• Vajra (金剛),
• Actionlessness (無爲),
• Dharma Intrinsic Nature (Dharma-svabhāva 法自性、法自然),
• Buddha-nature (Buddhatā, Buddha-svabhāva 佛性),
• Tathagata-Treasure (Tathāgata-garbha 如來藏),
• The True Reality of all phenomena (sarva-dharma-tathatā 諸法實相), and so on [3, 5, 6].

Although it is a significant concept in Mahayana Buddhism, it is also used in the Theravada tradition [7, 8]. More

The Life of Zen with Alan Watts - “Do what you like doing [rather than for money]”

Alan Watts on Buddhism and the word "Buddha" - Alan Watts, Who is the Buddha?

What to do? Go with the flow

Queens of the Stone Age "Go With the Flow" (live on Leno in 2003)

• Queens of the Stone Age – "Go with the Flow" lyrics

Disenchanted w/ mundane world: Beth Upton

• Beth Upton update: Wildflowers and Wanderings

Disenchantment with the Mundane World: Conversation with former Theravada Buddhist nun

Disenchantment: Untold Tales

(The Theory of Samsara) Jan. 8, 2026: In this in-depth conversation on Ultimate Meaning: The Theory of Samsara, I speak with British Buddhist meditation teacher Beth Upton, a former fully ordained Theravāda Buddhist nun (Sayalay Anuttara) in Burma who spent nearly ten years training under Pa Auk Sayadaw (Ven. Bhaddanta Āciṇṇa) in the Burmese forest meditation tradition.

 

She shares her journey from ordination at age 25, through years of rigorous monastic training in calm-and-insight (samatha-vipassanā), to her decision to disrobe and teach as a lay practitioner in the West.

Together, we explore some of the most misunderstood questions in contemporary Buddhism, including:

• 

  Let go until success then go teach the world.

  What truly leads someone to renounce samsaric life
• Disenchantment vs. curiosity on the path to liberation
• Whether Buddhist enlightenment is possible for lay Buddhist practitioners
• The lived meaning of renunciation beyond philosophy
• Tranquility versus insight (samatha vs. vipassanā) — and why “vipassanā” is often a misused term
• Ultimate reality, momentariness (moment-to-moment presence), and non-self
• Why deep meditation can feel fragile outside the context of monastic life
• The role of community, wise friends, and authentic teachers
• Commercialization of Dharma vs. teaching by donation
• Sectarianism between Theravāda, Mahāyāna, and Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism
• Why liberation is not just for “other cultures” or monastics

Canadian interviewer Lama Choga

This dialogue is not about spiritual abstract beliefs or spiritual ideals, but about what actually works when confronting disappointment (dukkha, suffering), impermanence, and the [impersonal] realities of samsara in modern life.

Chapters/Timestamps

• 00:00 – Intro: Beth Upton and Path [to End] Samsara
• 02:18 – Why she chose ordination as a British Buddhist nun at age 25
• 05:10 – Meeting authentic Buddhist teachers and the power of sangha [community]
• 08:32 – Experimenting with life and early renunciation
• 12:45 – Discovering liberation as a real possibility
• 16:40 – Is enlightenment possible for lay practitioners?
• 19:55 – Stream entry, arahantship, and Theravāda views
• 24:10 – Did Beth Upton meet enlightened beings?
• 27:05 – Why she disrobed after 10 years as a forest nun
• 33:40 – Fragility of meditation outside monastic life
• 37:55 – Teaching the Dharma authentically in the West
• 41:50 – Disenchantment with samsara: knowing it in the bones
• 47:30 – Cycles of renunciation and returning to the world
• 52:15 – Creating long-term retreat communities in Europe
• 56:40 – Teaching by donation rather than selling the Dharma
• 1:01:30 – Can deep meditation be practiced while working?
• 1:06:55 – Permanent retreatants and Western monastic models
• 1:10:40 – Environmental ethics in Buddhist practice
• 1:15:25 – Sectarianism: Southeast Asian Theravāda vs. Tibetan [Vajrayana] Buddhism
• 1:21:10 – Personal liberation vs. compassion for all beings
• 1:26:30 – Shamatha vs. vipassanā: clearing the confusion
• 1:33:10 – Ultimate reality and momentariness explained
• 1:39:45 – Causality, impermanence, and non-self
• 1:45:20 – Reflexive awareness and observing mind moments
• 1:52:10 – How to find wise friends and authentic teachers
• 1:57:30 – Final advice for Western practitioners
• 2:00:10 – Closing reflections and future conversations

Lama Choga and a Canadian Buddhist Sangha

If serious about meditation, renunciation, and understanding liberation beyond romantic [New Age] spirituality, this conversation offers rare clarity and lived insight.

🙏 Keep wise friends. Beth Upton's YouTube channel: @beth.upton.meditation

• Beth Upton's website: bethupton.com
• Previous videos about Beth Upton's backstory: About Me
• Episode 138: Trained as a Nun - Beth Upton
• Canadian Lama Choga: ultimatemeaning.org
• Meditációs elvonulások (Gánti Bence)
• Disenchantment: Untold Tales, Vol. 1 (book by Matt Groening)

How this was made: Auto-dubbed. Audio tracks for some languages were automatically generated. #DharmaTalk #Samsara #Buddhism #Theravada #Vipassana #MeditationPractice #Renunciation #Liberation #Enlightenment #BuddhistNun #PaAuk #NonSelf #FourNobleTruths #EightfoldPath #SpiritualPractice #Mindfulness #Jhanna #EasternPhilosophy #ultimatemeaning

• Host Lama Choga (The Theory of Samsara, Jan. 2026), guest Beth Upton; Dhr. Seven, Amber Larson (eds.), Wisdom Quarterly

Beth Upton: Wildflowers and Wanderings

 

Monthly update: Wildflowers and wanderings

Ayya Anuttara picking wildflowers, Burma

May 4, 2026: Hello, friends! Springtime is in full bloom here in Austin, Texas, as we find ourselves halfway through our third Buddhist meditation retreat.

It is an incredible pleasure to spend the month with an American group this strong — a testament to the dedication we have all put in over the past years, both in meditation and in service to the Sangha, the spiritual community.

• VIDEO: Disenchantment with the mundane world: Beth Upton as a Buddhist nun for ten years

As the wildflowers come out to play and our retreat deepens, I am left feeling surprisingly hopeful for the future of our growing community.

Like wildflowers: You must allow

yourself to grow in all the places

people thought you never would.

— E.V. Rogina

🌼 "Like wildflowers" E.V. Rogina (pinterest)

For those who are keen to join a retreat with me before the end of the year (and before I take a year off), the last opportunity will be a short retreat that I will be leading in Uruguay in October 2026.

Registration is open through May, and places will be distributed on a lottery basis with half of the places reserved for students from Uruguay. REGISTER.

For those patiently waiting for appointments with our wonderful team of teaching assistants, four out of five of them remain on retreat with me for the next two weeks. Please be patient as they enjoy some precious time to deepen their own practice. They will be back online towards the end of the month.

Good news! Eva will be back leading online Dhamma Circles with me through the first two weeks of May and the whole of June, 2026. We look forward to seeing everyone there to deepen our skills in this powerful work.

Book Dhamma Circles along with all of my online groups here. I will be spending the second half of May mostly offline as I travel from this beautiful mini-Burma here in Austin to Spain, London, and then to Hungary for the start of our June retreat. So be sure to get all of the instruction you need from me in the first half of the month.

Where will wildflowers wander?

Last month, you may remember, I did a session with the team at Sangha Live. The session was on deepening our relationships in practice. It was a joy to meet the group. If unable to join the session at the time, a recording is now available. WATCH.

 

On Thursday May 14th I will be hosting the next Ask Me Anything group call. This call is open to everyone. It is a chance to ask all the questions you’ve always wanted to ask. Come along in the spirit of the Dhamma. Ask me anything, and I will answer almost anything. Book a place on the call HERE.

Sacred stupa (reliquary mound) in Burma

Our next Service Team Call will be on Wednesday, May 20th, 2026 — a chance for our Service Team to catch up and regroup after this season of service at Sitagu to learn and grow more deeply in our service to the Dhamma [the historical Buddha's Doctrine as preserved in the Pali canon]. If interested in joining the Service Team, find out more HERE.

Full Moon Gatherings

Full Moon Gatherings with Beth Upton

On Sunday, May 31st, 2026, Beth Upton will be hosting our next Full Moon Gathering. This month’s topic will be on the much requested subject of food — something we all need to deal with every day. Come share struggles and wisdom as we support one another through this tasty topic. Book a spot at the gathering HERE. As always, our Sangha Support groups are open to everyone and are here to keep everyone resourced and motivated in the Dhamma.

Join Josipa, Ricardo, Iva, Jonathan, Laura, Ayya Ahimsa, Joe, and Isabelle for online group sittings, Dhamma study, accountability, and parts work. If interested in leading a Sangha Support group, APPLY HERE.

E. V. Rogina on setting fire to her work

Last but not least, my one-on-one availability has now been updated through May 2026. These appointments are made available ONLY through the newsletter and tend to book up very quickly, so if interested, get on it without delay.

Because my one-on-one time is very limited, out of consideration for the community as a whole, please use this time only for things that cannot be easily addressed in a group setting. Book an appointment.

All of my work is given on a donation (dana) basis, which means that all of this is only possible because of generous voluntary support. Support this work.

With metta and gratitude, Beth Upton

• Beth Upton (Monthly updates: Wildflowers and Wanderings by Beth Upton), edited by Dhr. Seven, Wisdom Quarterly, Pa Auk Sayadaw students

What's worse, Satan or Heartbreak?

(Black Sabbath) "Black Sabbath," live in Paris in 1970, which starts at Minute 2:15

18 fascinating facts about Nina Persson

Long, long ago, there was this cool Swedish band that used to do covers, as most new bands are wont to do. Like nearly everyone else, they covered Black Sabbath standards. They are so catchy, easy, and powerful, that it's a good way to get a rock 'n roll career going. But the band was The Cardigans with an ice princess for a singer, one with a saccharine voice and looks. Some member, possibly the drummer, said, "I know! Let's cover the most iconic and evil Black Sabbath song, a song so evil they named themselves after it!"

"But how can we make it MORE evil?" someone asked. "I know, someone else must've said, 'Well turn it into a love song, maybe throw in some domestic abuse.'" "Yeah!" or "Whatever," the others must've said. (What's worse, the Devil or being trapped in an abusive romantic relationship with a jerk partner?)

And so "Heartbreaker" was born. Now, no Cardigans fan knows it's "Black Sabbath," and no Sabbath fans know who the F The Cardigans are, but evil is evil, and a rock 'n roll classic is a classic for a reason (or it may have something to do with the Devil's note, the tritone).

Now, in Christianity, "Satan" is the source of all evil, all harm, all bad things. He's like the counterpart to a jerk allegedly all-powerful God who is all "good." But satan really means the "adversary," any adversary, as in divorce court.

"Heartbreaker"

LYRICS: "Heartbreaker"

Lovefool Nina Persson, The Cardigans front

[Verse 1] No, not again/ Oh, what a man/ Just who I thought that I wanted to have/ Oh, don't do that/ Don't use that bat/ That's all it takes to make me falling flat/ [Pre-Chorus 1] No, not again/ A loser I am// [CHORUS] I love you tonight/ You are my knight/ Cure and assure and make me feel alright/ Tomorrow you'll find/ I'm not around/ But don't be uptight 'cause I loved you last night// [Verse 2] Vacant and free/ Yeah, that is me/ Just tell me how and I'll please you for free/ Tell me I'm good/ I know I'm bad/ Lies make me feel fine although it is sad/ [Pre-Chorus 2] No, not again/ Not one more man// [CHORUS] I love you tonight/ You are my knight/ Cure and assure and make me feel alright/ Tomorrow you'll find/ I'm not around/ But don't be uptight 'cause I loved you last night/ Right?

LYRICS: "Black Sabbath"

Madman Ozzy Osbourne, Black Sabbath front

[Instrumental Intro] [Verse 1] What is this that stands before me?/ Figure in black which points at me/ Turn 'round quick and start to run/ Find out I'm the chosen one/ Oh, no/ [Verse 2] Big black shape with eyes of fire/ Tellin' people their desire/ Satan's sittin' there, he's smilin'/ Watches those flames get higher and higher/ Oh, no, no, please, God, help me/ [Bridge] Is it the end, my friend?/ Satan's comin' 'round the bend/ People runnin' 'cause they're scared/ The people better go and beware/ No, no, please, no/ [Guitar Solo] [Instrumental Outro]

(Black Sabbath) Masterpiece that is "Black Sabbath"

(xuky 1982) The Cardigans "Heartbreaker" live

(Rock 'N Roll True Stories) What happened to The Cardigans ("Lovefool")

Who is this cat "Satan"?

(The Faith Explainer)

The evil Devil began in Zoroastrianism

(The Epic History Vibe) Zarathustra's forgotten religion that secretly invented heaven, hell, and the Devil borrowed by Christianity, Judaism, and Islam